Christian Student Dies from T Muslim seminary implicated in forcible conversion attempt
Pakistani Christian Student Dies from Torture Muslim seminary implicated in forcible conversion attempt. By Barbara G. Baker, Compass Direct | posted 05/12/2004 Pakistani police in the central province of Punjab reluctantly detained a Muslim cleric last week after a Christian university student savagely beaten and tortured inside a local Islamic madrasseh (seminary) died of his injuries. Maulvi Ghulam Rasool was put under detention at a Toba Tek Singh police station at midday on May 2, about 10 hours after Javed Anjum, 19, died in a Faisalabad hospital. Despite repeated attempts to obtain the cleric's release before judicial magistrates, he remains in temporary custody. At Saturday's hearing, the lawyer for Anjum's family persuaded the court to include the victim's deathbed statement recorded by the police on April 26 in the formal First Information Report on the case. Monday, Judge Qamar Zaman Khoker ordered Rasool kept under physical remand for another two days, to give police until Wednesday to recover further evidence and arrest two other suspects in the crime. &The police are trying to cooperate with us,& a local Christian monitoring the case told Compass, &but the matter is politicized. The government does not want maulvis (Muslim prayer leaders) to be arrested.& Maulvi arrests can damage relations with the powerful extremist bloc of the Muslim electorate, the spokesman said. Last week, Punjab Chief Minister Pervaiz Elahi admitted that although Muslim religious leaders had been arrested in the past, the current government did not believe in such &extreme& action. &We will have to display sectarian harmony and unity in our ranks to dispel the impression of intolerance about Islam,& Elahi was quoted as saying in the May 6 issue of The News. Rasool has been identified as a prayer leader and watchman at the Jamia Hassan Bin Murtaza Madrasseh in Tarandi village, near Toba Tek Singh, where Anjum was tortured for five days. The madrasseh's principal, Maulvi Ghulam Murtaza Shah, was identified by Anjum as one of his tormentors. On his hospital deathbed, Anjum declared in his formal statement to the police that he was tortured specifically because he refused to convert to Islam. According to his testimony videotaped by his family, Anjum had been seized by people from the madrasseh when he stopped to get a drink of water from the school's water tap. When they learned he was a Christian, they pressured him &from night until morning& to convert to Islam. When he resisted, he said, he was subjected to barbaric forms of torture. His abuse included repeated electric shocks to his ears, a broken right arm and fingers, some of his fingernails pulled out, skin burns, severe beatings on his feet, and serious injuries to his kidneys and bladder. Reportedly 26 wounds were found on his body in the official post mortem report issued May 6. Anjum said he was finally forced under torture to repeat the words of the Muslim creed, an act which according to Islamic law constitutes conversion to Islam. But he told his family he had not renounced his Christian faith. In his third year of undergraduate studies in commerce at Quetta's Government College, Anjum was the third of six children. He disappeared on April 17 while traveling from Toba Tek Singh to his grandfather's home in Gojra. His father came quickly from Quetta to report him missing to local police, placing a notice on cable TV and searching the area. On April 22, madrasseh representatives took Anjum to the police, claiming they had caught him trying to steal their water pump. But his condition was so critical that police refused to take him into custody, asking his family to take him to a local hospital. Within two days, both of the youth's kidneys were failing, and local doctors ordered him transferred to Faisalabad's Allied Hospital. Despite repeated dialysis treatments and intensive care, he died on May 2, 11 days after he was hospitalized. According to an April 30 report in Dawn newspaper, the madrasseh's principal told a district official that Anjum was a drug addict, and that he had confessed to stealing in order to buy his narcotics. When an investigative team from Lahore's Center for Legal Aid Assistance and Settlement visited the Toba Tek Singh police station the day after Anjum's death, head constable Mohammad Anwar ul-Haq declared that the accused attackers &had not beaten him with the intention to kill him.& Since Anjum had gone to the madrasseh &intentionally with the motive of theft& and the madrasseh staff had caught him in the act, the constable reasoned, &It was God's will that he had to die this way.& &This whole atmosphere of intolerance [against non-Muslims] is being created by the curriculum,& a Christian cleric who attended Anjum's funeral told Compass. &We've just made a study on the latest books issued by the government, and they are more Islamist, more fanatical, than before.& For the past two years, Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has declared that Islamic schools fomenting divisive &sectarian& teachings would be forced to revise their courses or face closure. Yesterday Religious Affairs Minister Mohammed Ejaz ul-Haq declared at a madrasseh ceremony in Taxila that &Western propaganda against madrassehs is baseless and it must be countered.& Quoted in Monday's Daily Times newspaper, ul-Haq claimed that the &erroneous& textbooks accused of promoting intolerance and violence among madrasseh students had been removed from the market, and that those who prepared them would be tried and punished.
KEYWORDS: ;
To: ambrose
Koran 2:257 &Let there be no compulsion in religion&
Koran 5:48 &To every one have We given a law and a way...made And if Allah had pleased, he would have them as one people. But he hath done otherwise, that He might try you in that which He hath seve wherefore press forward in good works. Unto God shall ye return, and He will tell you that concerning which ye disagree.&
The problem is not Islam, but rather the clerics and the mullahs.
27:20But these ill-omened owls have done a wrong, And learned to sing as the white falcon sings. And what of Sheba's message that the lapwing brings If the bittern learn to sing the lapwing's song?
To: Brellium
A few excerpts from the Quran/Koran:
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah' but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[4.95] The holders back from among the believers, not having any injury, and those who strive hard in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal
[4.144] O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rathe do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Ch they are f and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then sure surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for A but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave th surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of A and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of A these are the w they imitate the saying of those wh may A how they are turned away!
[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them
and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
(AP Headline: &Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He&)
To: Brellium
WRONG!!! Islam means submission It is born of violence and it will die in violence. This is the most evil thinking that man has ever come up with. Stop trying to make it seem as if Islam has any moderates As far as I can tell all they have are people who say &well yes but....and then there is Israel and the occupiers..etcetc& What a boat load. This is not a religion of peace but rather of death. Time to start telling the whole truth and calling evil for what it really is evil
To: ambrose
Thanks for doing your part to rip the mask off of islam and exposing it for what it really is, an evil satanic force on the earth, headed not by G-d, but by satan.
To: ambrose
We can play this quote game all night, I just made a fresh pot of coffee. Qur'an 39:12 &Shall they who have knowledge and they who have it not, be treated alike?&
Qur'an 5:85 &Thou shalt certainly find those to be nearest in affection to the believers, who say, 'We are Christians'.&
Qur'an 16:124 &Follow the religion of Abraham, the sound in faith.&
Qur'an 9:33 &Fain would they put out God's light with their mouths: but God hath willed to perfect His light, albeit the infidels abhor it.&
3:110 &And they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is unjust, and speed on in good works. These are of the righteous.&
3:100 &that there may be among you a people who invite to the good, and enjoin the just, and forbid the wrong. These are they with whom it shall be well.
16:92 &Verily, God enjoineth justice and the doing of good ... and He forbeth wickedness and oporession. He warnedth you that haply ye may be mindful.&
7:198 &M and enjoin what is just, and withdraw from the ignorant.&
3:128 &...who master their anger and forgive others! God loveth the doers of good.&
2:172 &There is no righteousness in turning your faces toward the East or the West, but he is righteous who believeth in God, and the last day, and the angels, and the Scriptures, and the P who for the love of God disburseth his wealth to his kindred, and to orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, who observeth prayer, and payeth the legal alms, and who is of those who erform their covenant when they have convenanted, and are paitent under ills and hardships, and in the time of trouble: these are they who are just, and these are they who fear the Lord.&
To: Brellium
You are in the wrong forum in the wrong week to apologize for Islam.
(The French love John Kerry. He is their new Jerry Lewis)
To: Brellium
As I said before, the problem lies within Islam, but is not Islam. The Imam Ali &And one day Islam shall be like an overturned pot, with her contents spilt out for all to see.&
It is the clerics and the mullahs who sully the religion and pursue their own petty agendas ahead of that which is Gods.
To: Brellium
The Koran’s 150 Jihad VersesCompiled by &&&&&& . Verses NOT generally listed are those that speak about aspects of Jihad other than the raiding, fighting and looting, for example:Z&&&&& Muhammad’s poor opinion of those who did not go on Jihad, even though they were able-bodied and able financially (for instance, some verses in K 009:081-096), andZ&&&&& The heavenly rewards for Jihadists.Such omitted verses can readily be found in proximity to the Jihad verses listed below.
IV. )&List of Verses&
The Koran’s 150 Jihad Verses
RunningCount
178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244
121-126, 140-141, 146, 152-157, 165-167, 169, 172-173, 195
071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095, 100, 102, 104
033, 035, 082
001, 005, 007, 009, 012, 015-017, 039-048, 057-060, 065-075
005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029, 036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083, 086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123
039, 058, 078
015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050
015-017, 022, 024
002, 005-008, 014
004, 011, 013
To: Brellium
Yes, I can do that.
I'd like to see a &moderate& Muslim explain those verses.
There are some fairly harsh verses in the Bible, and I've seen some pretty good explanations for why they are no longer applicable. With the Islamic Jihad verses, all I hear in response is a move to change the subject.
(AP Headline: &Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He&)
To: ambrose
Mohammed was a thief and a pedophile amongst other things. An evil demonic being, doing satans work on earth.
To: ambrose
I fail to see the point?
Would any explaination change your personal belief in God?
Actually before you answer that one, I'
In the Torah it says that anyone who works on the Sabbith should be put to death.
I would be hard pressed to find even an Ultra-Orthadox Jew who would even acculmate to such an idea.
The problems concerning Islam are many and they are all too evident as Ali said they would be. Even the Qur'an says that it is best to walk the good path between the two evils (an alagory to moderation) yet that among many others are forgotten by the clerics and the mullahs. They like the Jews in the time of Christ have moved further to fundamentalism in the assumption that they have fallen behind due to their lack of faithfulness to God. The picture I'm painting through this interpitation implies I believe Islam's future is not all togeather bright for muslims. Irregardless of the constant talk of this being Islam's Century.
I could likely contradict many of the above statements or explain them away but I don't have the time or patience, which seems to be fading more each passing day. I'm sure many are taken out of context, but as I cannot and do not speak Arabic, I cannot say for certain and with the complexity of that language I am unwilling to read any English translation except from all but the most trusted of sources(which sadly there are none).
One the side note, the pedophile charge has particularly annoyed me. Anyone with even a slight knowledge of history will knows that durring the ancient times, and up untill the use of sanitation systems in cities and towns the many people could not expect to live beyond the age 30. The protagonists in Romeo and Juliet are thought to have been around the age 15 and it was not unusual for children to mary before that (usually with the daughters first menstration). Marrige is now carried out later in life due to our better understanding of anatomy, increased education, and longer lifetimes (mainly the last two). That implication that Mohammad was a pedophile while true is applying modern relativism to a time which is now beyond us and which we are not fully able to understand. The funny thing is, the reverse seems to be the problem Islam faces currently. I'll also note that I'm quite sure I could apply that same judgement to an ancestor of any reader of this forum or discussion and likely every ancestor from there on back.
One day we will see libralization from Islam, I know quite a bit about it from my faith and know enough to actually hold my own in discussions (and also point out critical flaws) with many clerics.
I also know this child has earned his place near God for holding his belief through this torture, to gain such a place should be the aim of every person on this planet.
To: Brellium
In the Torah it says that anyone who works on the Sabbith should be put to death. Easy answer... that law has not been in force for nearly 2000 years... No dodging, no interpretations... it simply has not be applicable for 2000 years...
(AP Headline: &Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He&)
To: ambrose
Then you see my point.
To: Brellium
While many so-called experts like to argue over the language in the Koran...and the meaning of said language respective to its time, I've often found that actions speak louder than words.... I'd like to believe that Muslims are full of love and peace, but their actions say otherwise.
The only sane branch of Islam I've ever heard of were the old Sufis, and it isn't even clear whether they were Muslims. They certainly wouldn't live very long in today's atmosphere of Jihad and Fatwas.
(AP Headline: &Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He&)
To: ambrose
Ah, yes, the Sufi's, Sufi was a daughter of Muhammad, the Imam Ali (who I spoke of earlier) was her son, and was expected to be the torch bearer after Muhammed passed on.
Shite islam derives from it since they believe only the decendants of Muhammed were the only ones fit to cary on his message.
Sadly it all but died out with the assination of Ali at (I think) Karbala by the Ommyads (or was it the Asimmyads? I can never remember). Some of what I've read, states emphatictly that those two regimes were the beast straight out of the book of revalations.
To: Brellium
The thing is, I've really stopped even seeing Islam as a 'religion' per se... I see it as just another militant ideology like Communism and Nazism.
The clerics and their followers have done nothing to tell me I am wrong.
I sure hope something changes within Islam (a Sufi revival seems like the best shot for this), because if it doesn't, there will likely be a World War.
(AP Headline: &Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He&)
Comment #19 Removed by Moderator
To: Brellium
The problem is not is-slime, but rather the clerics and the mullahs.
Tut, tut. You neglected to include a sarcasm tag! I've also corrected the spelling of the cult you alluded to. Cheers!
(Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Louis Stevenson.)
To: ambrose
Sadly, your statement cuts right to the bone, and you will not receive an arguement from on it. Islam has moved to a point which might not even be considered fanatisim.
I wish I could claim it's the work of the devil, but it's not. It's just another example of how easily humanity can be led astray.
Maybe one day God's light will again shine down upon the Islamic world, but that day is far off and will be very bloody.
To: Brellium
I believe that is the end of this disussion as I lack the clarity and &wit& to carry it on.
To: Brellium
It is the clerics and the mullahs who sully the religion and pursue their own petty agendas ahead of that which is Gods. And only the Mullah's were dancing in the streets on 9/11, right? If it's just the Mullah's why don't the rest of you just take them out?
(Democrats are liars...)
To: Brellium
Maybe one day God's light will again shine down upon the Islamic world, but that day is far off and will be very bloody. God already used His own blood to shine His light. Man is certainly inadequate.
(Democrats are liars...)
To: Ursa63
You are a liar and a despicable pile of dung. I would love to meet you face to face, you sick maggot. I'd do a hell of a lot more than annoy you. For the good of humanity islam and it's supporters must be destroyed. Starting with you.That's a pretty rotten way to address another human being. Ever hear the phrase &hate the sin, not the sinner&?
(AP Headline: &Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He&)
To: Brellium
I am sorry about the folks addressing you like that.
You gotta understand that the Islamics have done everything they can to enrage and fill with hatred otherwise loving Americans. Sad situation.
(AP Headline: &Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He&)
To: Ursa63
I think you are attempting to make FR look bad. You made yourself look bad.
(Democrats are liars...)
To: Brellium
I apologize for the way you were treated in post 19.
I will admit that I hate Islam, but that doesn't mean I hate you.
It is a shame that some have to resort to that type of talk.
Please don't judge Christianity on his comments.
Judge it on Jesus' life and what He taught us.
(Democrats are liars...)
To: Brellium
&The problem is not Islam, but rather the clerics and the mullahs&The problem IS Islam.
(&He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...&)
To: Preachin'; ambrose
Why would I judge any religion based on the actions of one person? And how would such a judgement benefit me?
Does the Lord command us to Not be Judgemental?
No, it is better to remove any such trappings as they only get in the way.
Well it is quite late now and I have much to do tomorrow, good night all.
To: Brellium
The problem is Islam is a religion of demons.
To: Brellium
I also know this child has earned his place near God for holding his belief through this torture, to gain such a place should be the aim of every person on this planet.that is the one thing that differentiates true from false
To: ambrose
This is a saint and martyr.
It is happening all over again.
(Vote Kerry if you want to commit national suicide)
To: Brellium
Does the Lord command us to Not be Judgmental?
Well, there is a book in the bible called Judges. We are also told to judge people's fruit. If you read the Apostle Paul's letters, you will see him all in their face. He openly criticized the Apostle Peter for his hypocritical eating habits. However, he did not call him &dung&. I could go on an on about the responsibity of taking people to task It's just that there is a right way to do it.
(Democrats are liars...)
To: Brellium
Noting in your quotations contradicts or the murderous suras. It works out to being Kill the unbelievers when you are strong enough to do so. Make nice when you are not.
To: Brellium
It is the clerics and the mullahs who sully the religion and pursue their own petty agendas And that seems togoright back to Mohammed which makes it pretty basic to the religion.
To: ambrose
Just further proof from the &Religion of Peace& that genocide isn't ALWAYS a bad thing...
(&Life is tough, and it's really tough when you're stupid& - Damon Runyon)
To: ambrose
Maulvi arrests can damage relations with the powerful extremist bloc of the Muslim electorate... the current government did not believe in such &extreme& action. &We will have to display sectarian harmony
Does this sound exactly like what the liberals would do, just bend over for the facist. Don't want to take the 'extreme' action of arresting a prayer leader who tortured a young man. After all they represent a large voting bloc and we need their votes. The dead kid can't vote so no need to worry about him.
To: jnarcus
Stop trying to make it seem as if Islam has any moderates
But islam does have moderates. They just practice terrorism by proxy
(God Save America (Please))
To: Brellium
Islam is the problem and the war on terror will end when the last moslem dies. Unfortunately the koran forces us into this &us or them, all or nothing& confrontationThat implication that Mohammad was a pedophile while true... You could have stopped right there. All else is irrelevant. BTW you forgot the correct way to reference mohammad (piss be upon him)
(God Save America (Please))
Comment #41 Removed by Moderator
Comment #42 Removed by Moderator
To: Ursa63
You make accusations against this poster. Calling him a piece of dung is not exactly Christian, or can you show me the verse?
In fact, your post was so bad it was removed. Hmmm?
(Democrats are liars...)
To: Ursa63
Well, there's a difference between a Muslim and an Islamist.
An Islamist wants to kill you.A Muslim merely wants you dead.
It is also true that all Muslims aren't bad. The 99% of them who are violent, bloodthirsty Jihadist killers ruin it for the other 1%.
To: Brellium
So how do Muslims explain the rape of A'icha by Muhammed when the little girl was just 9 years old? This is a holy man?
To: ambrose
I wonder if this will get the attention of the media that is obsessing over Abu Grhaib.
(Protect my grandchildren's future.
Vote for Bush/Cheney '04.)
To: ambrose
R.I.P. Javed Anjum.
To: ambrose
Muck the Fuslims. Despicable excuses for human beings.
Jeremiah Jr; 2 dennisw
According to his testimony videotaped by his family, Anjum had been seized by people from the madrasseh when he stopped to get a drink of water from the school's water tap.
&He was nothing. The well is everything.&
Comment #50 Removed by Moderator
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