HFSS lumped port and wave port
Results 1 to 15 of 15
Full Member level 2
What is the difference of lump port and wave port ?
If I want to get S-parameter of spiral inductor , what type I should use ?
Full Member level 2
Achievements:
hfss waveport
Lumped ports:
Lumped ports are similar to traditional wave ports, but can be located internally and have a complex user-defined impedance. Lumped ports compute S-parameters directly at the port.The complex impedance Zs defined for a lumped port serves as the reference impedance of the S-matrix on the lumped port. The impedance Zs has the characteristics it is used to determine the strength of a source, such as the modal voltage V and modal current I, through complex power normalization. (The magnitude of the complex power is normalized to 1.) In either case, you would get an identical S-matrix by solving a problem using a complex impedance for a lumped Zs or renormalizing an existing solution to the same complex impedance.
By default, the interface between all 3D objects and the background is a perfect E boundary through which no energy may enter or exit. Wave ports are typically placed on this interface to provide a window that couples the model device to the external world.
Wave ports:
HFSS assumes that each wave port you define is connected to a semi-infinitely long waveguide that has the same cross-section and material properties as the port. When solving for the S-parameters, HFSS assumes that the structure is excited by the natural field patterns (modes) associated with these cross-sections. The 2D field solutions generated for each wave port serve as boundary conditions at those ports for the 3D problem. The final field solution computed must match the 2D field pattern at each port.
HFSS generates a solution by exciting each wave port individually. Each mode incident on a port contains one watt of time-averaged power. Port 1 is excited by a signal of one watt, and the other ports are set to zero watts. After a solution is generated, port 2 is set to one watt, and the other ports to zero watts and so forth.
With lumped ports you should know the characteristic impedance of the connected feeding line for calculating S-matrix, while with wave ports, if correctly sized, portZ0 defines the reference impedance for calculating S parameters, and it automatically takes the value of the Zo impedance of feeding line. If I were you, I would prefer wave ports, always if you are not obliged of defining an internal port.
7 members found this post helpful.
Member level 2
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
I got a slight adjustment (at least for HFSS V.11 and 12):
The magnitude of the complex power is normalized to 1.
This is actually not completely true. The real power (real part of the incident power) is normalized to 1W by default. But when using complex (lumped) port impedances, the (total) incident power can be (much) higher, as can be seen by calculating the antenna parameters (via right-click onto the radiation sphere). To avoid this I suggest not using complex impedances but use a real port with normalization onto the complex value (the normalization actually takes compex numbers with either 'i' or 'j', at least in V12) or by using a lumped admittance element with X=Im(Z) after the port with the real impedance part Z_port=Re(Z).
Newbie level 4
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
what should be the lumped port height and width dimension to excite inset fed microstrip patch antenna at 2.4 GHz?
Member level 5
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
Hey KILLERCHAKRAVARTI,
The port sizing guidelines for a microstrip structure is given in HFSS Manual on the 2nd last page. For a microstrip structure, the port dimensions should be:
height = between 6h and 10h
width = 10w (if w&=h)
5w (if w&h)
where w is width of trace
h is height(thickness) of substrate
1 members found this post helpful.
Full Member level 6
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
the above statement is valid for the waveport, not lumped port.
The lumped port for a microstrip should be as wide as the signal line and drop straight the the ground plane.
Lumped ports should always contact two conductors.
have fun, :)
2 members found this post helpful.
Member level 5
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
Dear tallface, Can you please give the reference of your statement? As far as I have seen in the manual, it doesnt say that those port size guidelines are only for waveport.
Full Member level 6
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
Ahsaan, the best ref)
But basically, the waveport is a 2D eigen solver and requires a cross section of given transmission line to determine the natural modes of the cross section.
The reasoning for the waveport dimensions is due to the fact that the edges of a waveport are seen as PEC boundaries in the 2D Eignesolver.
If these edges are too close to the signal line,
then you have artificial coupling that will perturb the port impedance, hence the &rules of thumb& for port sizing.
As for lumped ports...
Remember that waveports have PEC boundaries on their edges and solve for the eigenmodes, well lumped ports have PEC boundaries on the edges that contact conductors and PMC boundaries on the edges that do not contact conductors.
As you can imagine, this forces a field distribution that allows for uniform current :) (which is the same as saying the fundamental mode of an infinite planar waveguide mode)
This is why you simply draw a rectangle that connects one conductor to another.
Also be aware that by forcing this excitation, you must provide the reference impedance while the waveport will solve for the port impedance and use the dispersive impedance as a generalized reference for generalized S matrices.
2 members found this post helpful.
Member level 2
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
Back to KILLERCHAKRAVARTI's question: I would not recommend using a lumped port for a microstrip patch antenna anyway. I would use a coax port (meaning a coax connector model using a waveport) - that way you can assume that in the end, once you actually build and measure your antenna, you will get well agreeing results. In my experience, this is always the best choice (although the solving time is slightly increased compared to the lumped port model).
Newbie level 3
Re: hfss waveport
Originally Posted by Ivan_
[i]Lumped ports:
????????????
Could you please tell me how to deal whit message below:
Port refinement, process hf3d error: Port 1 does not have a solved inside material on either side..
As a new comer to HFSS ,I have tried to save this problem some times by myself ,but never get the right answer.
And could you please tell what's the difference between &Do Not Renormalize& and &Renormalize All Modes Full Port Impedance&.
Thanks so much..
Member level 2
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
Generally, bodies made of metals are not solved on the inside, because normally you dont care about that. The waveport however needs something to be solved inside on one of its sides -- otherwise it would not make sense anyway. So, have a look at your port and the materials on its sides. For example, if you want to make a coax model, then the one side is usually a PEC disc (not solved inside) while the other has the middle pin of the coax and also the isolator material (e.g. Teflon in practice) which is solved inside. Or sometimes the waveport lies on the (radiation) boundary of your model, then of course one side is not solved (because it is the outside of your model) but the other is usually vacuum, which of course is solved inside.
...if that did not help, maybe you should upload your model.
As to the renormalization: the lumped port requires you to give a port impedance, like 50 ohms, but after everything has been solved, you can still look how it would be if you were looking at your model e.g. through a 75 ohm feed by renormalizing everything (I'm sure you can find the actual math in the help) to that impedance. If it is a waveport, it will find its own impedance (so you should check that that impedance actually makes sense for your simulation), and then again, you can renormalize to whatever you want to actually look at.
3 members found this post helpful.
Newbie level 3
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
I have tried as you said last night .And the massage &hf3d error..& was gone,while I dont know if I get the right way to set a wave port .
Here I get some photos .
Maybe you can tell me .
Thanks so much.
Member level 2
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
That doesn't look quite right to me... but it's hard to say, from those pictures.
The first shows the coax stub in general. The second shows the waveport, applied to the inner face of the coax end cylinder (or rather disk). And the third the outer conductor, which I usually model by just applying PerfE boundary to the outer lateral surface of the isolation material cylinder (usually Teflon).
Newbie level 3
Re: HFSS lumped port and wave port
I tried as you said last night,and I felt that I get
the right way to set a wave port .
Thanks very much.
1 members found this post helpful.
Member level 1
Re: hfss waveport
could you tell me ,
I have designed a square MSA with dual probe feed.But im unable to see E plane & H plane plots for cross & co polarization, I am using HFSS v11. could u tell me 1)where should i see its results ? to see this should i apply excitation to each probe by creating 3 design 1-both probe ,2-1stprobe,3-2nd probe excitation?
2)How to decide its circular or linear polarization?
3) what are the values of theta & phi to see this polarization?
Please reply as early as possible
Thanking you in Anticipation.
Please login
, , , , , , , , ,HFSS wave port 和 lumped port 的区别-射频/微波-与非网
的激励以电压或电流的形式，加在一个点或单元上。
With wave-port=& the excitation is so-called eigen-wave, such as the quasi-tem wave supported by a microstrip line. It applies over a cross-sectional area.
而wave-port的激励称做本征波，比如微带线馈源提供的准TEM波，它加在一个横截面（剖面）上。
voltage is scalar, wave is vector by nature, hence there are substantial difference between the two. So use waveport whenever possible, because &simulation of wave phenomenon& is what
is designed for. And compare with the &correct& measurement whenever possible (i.e. measure &wave&, not simply &voltage&)。
电压是标量，而波本质上是矢量，因此两者间有很大区别。当情况允许时，尽可能选择，这是由于HFSS是为&波仿真&设计的，相对于简单的&电压&，测量&波&可使结果更精确。
Why lumped port is there? It is easy to applied and people found that good/reasonable results can be obtained. Why? if the frequency is low enough or the excitation is applied at sufficiently small area, then the &wave& can be described by some &voltage& or &current&, which must be &measured&/&calculated&/de-embedded/etc in the correct manner.&
那为什么还要使用lumped port呢，这是由于lumped port激励的添加简单，并且可获得良好的结果。如果频率很低或者激励加在足够小的区域上，&波&就可以用&电压&或&电流&来描述，必须用正确地方式测量、计算。
if the excitation can be applied on some locally uniform region=&waveport,&
if geometry/material discontinuities are near/closer to the point of excitation=&lumped port might be the only way.
另外，如果激励可以加在某些局部均匀分布的区域，应该采用waveport，如果激励点附近存在几何或材料上的不连续区，lumped port可能就是唯一选择了。
外部端口用wave port& 内部端口用lumped port。
Wave port：是用Ansoft制作的一个电磁系统与外界进行能量交换的窗口,它能够到端口的S参数。它是一种典型的传输线型端口，它经常用来设置波导口和同 轴线的输出输入端口。它要设置在整个辐射框（吸收边界）的外面，如果在辐射框（吸收边界）内使用这种源的设置，就必须在端口的外边画一反射体（金属底座） 以此来确定波的传播方向。
Lamped Gap Sources同Wave port源的很相似，但Lumped Gap Sources一般设置为电磁系统的内部端口，它可自定义端口的阻抗。它可以用于微带线、波导及平行双导线等电磁系统源的设置，在设置Lamped Gap Sources时应注意两点：
1.用户定义的端口阻抗不能为零或负数，
2.此端口只允许单模传输。另外，还必须设置积分线。它的设置和Wave Port基本一致，只是Lumped Gap Sources需要设置阻抗和电抗。
wave port 端口不会产生任何反射，相当于匹配负载，而lump端口，指的是端口以集中元件代替，如果器阻抗值不等于连接的传输线，当然端口本身就引起反射.
微带线和差分线应该用waveport
关于 与 的理解&
1.&&& driven modal& 模式驱动, 所谓模式驱动就是hfss根据用户所定义的模式数目求解端口模式数目及场分布,并为每个模式分配相等的功率,仿真时用端口场分布做为边界条件对内部进行求 解,默认端口阻抗为Zpi 无须定义积分线来求解电压, S参量用入射反射功率来表示&
2.&&& 对于分析偶合传输线等一个端口上有多个终端,而求解终端之间偶合问题的模型,driven modal 是不适合的.应用driven terminal ,这里以微带偶合传输线为例子说明这个问题&
在这个端口上tem波 有两种模式 1.偶模:V1=V2& 2.奇模. V1=-V2& (V1为导体1对接地板等效电压, V2为导体2对接地板等效电压)& 如果用driven modal求结 则这两种模式分别被赋予相等功率,而求解出的S11则是整个端口上的每一种模式的反射情况,而不能直接求出两线的偶合状况(例如只激励导体1,求导体2上 的端口电压)这显然是不合适的.
Driven terminal默认的求解终端阻抗为Zvi& 故对于每个终端需要定义积分线,例如上图中terminal 的积分线为从接地版到导体1的连线(导体1,接地版都为等势体,路径没有关系),terminal2的积分线为接地版到导体2)& 计算机求解时对两个终端分别进行激励,通过电压与电流来计算他们之间的偶合关系.&
1).&&& 如果模型中有类似于偶合传输线求偶合问题的模型一定要用driven terminal求解,
2).&&& driven modal适于其他模型, 但一般tem模式(同轴,微带等)传输的单终端模型一般用driven terminal分析 (tem波电压一般由两导体之间电场积分定义,电流为环线磁场的积分,阻抗Zvi=Zpi=Zpv区别于TE TM) 由于其直接对电流电压求解而避免了对整个面上功率的计算从而比较简便.
关注与非网微信 ( ee-focus )
限量版产业观察、行业动态、技术大餐每日推荐
享受快时代的精品慢阅读
百度竞价排名其实受害的远不止一个人，一件事，一个行业，作为一个电子行业的媒体...
旗下网站：
与非门科技(北京)有限公司 All Rights Reserved.
京ICP证:070212号
北京市公安局备案编号： 京ICP备：号关于wave port 和lump port理解_百度文库
两大类热门资源免费畅读
续费一年阅读会员，立省24元！
关于wave port 和lump port理解
上传于||暂无简介
阅读已结束，如果下载本文需要使用0下载券
想免费下载更多文档？
下载文档到电脑，查找使用更方便
还剩1页未读，继续阅读
你可能喜欢HFSS在设置waveport 时遇到的问题 - HFSS使用问答
易迪拓培训,专注于微波、射频、天线设计工程师的培养
HFSS在设置waveport 时遇到的问题
HFSS在设置waveport 时遇到的问题
我在做FULL BOOK上的屏蔽体的例子时，该设置WAVE PORT时 ，画了一个园，然后assign---excitation---wave port ,就出现了如图所示的情况，不 明白这个是怎么回事。与我的端口园有接触的两个PEC属性的结构，出现在对话框中。
另外常看大家说积分线，积分线是什么意思？还有最大迭代次数什么意思？还有就是，post processing 里的端口归一化（port renormalization ），归不归一化又啥区别？用什么来归一化的？
这个是上面的那个图，，，
申明：网友回复良莠不齐，仅供参考。如需专业解答，请学习由易迪拓培训专家讲授的。
HFSS视频培训课程推荐
迄今国内最全面、权威、专业的HFSS培训课程，可以帮助您从零开始，全面系统学习HFSS设计应用【】
HFSS相关栏目
频道总排行}